The Question of Men’s Rights Activism

mens-rights-activismA small, yet vocal group of men around the globe identify as Men’s Right Activists or Advocates, or MRAs for short. Men’s Rights Activism seeks to raise awareness of and defend the rights of boys and men, and is a part of the larger movement of masculism which refers to all groups focused on men’s rights issues.

Some see Men’s Rights Activism as the male version of feminism, or further, the male response to feminism. MRAs generally aren’t as well-known as feminists, but MRAs and men who support men’s rights issues can be found in their own spheres, offline and online.

While some believe Men’s Right Activism is completely unnecessary, on the surface of it, Men’s Rights Activism is a noble concept. MRAs defend issues which many people don’t know exist or don’t see as issues at all, such as parental rights and custody. But digging deeper, learning about MRAs and their mode of operation, it isn’t clear whether Men’s Rights Activism is really about protecting the rights of men or about opposing the rights of everyone else.

On the Attack

Instead of being a self-contained movement, some portions of Men’s Rights Activism tends to respond to issues raised by feminism. Self-identified MRAs attack legitimate issues presented by feminists, in the belief that these issues violate the rights of men. And in doing so, MRAs attack the rights of all women, not just those who identify as feminists — all women are affected by their opposing women’s issues.

Anti-feminist MRAs create a division between the rights of women and the rights of men: you either support men’s rights or you support women’s rights. You can’t support both, and by supporting one you are opposing the other.

Misogyny and Femiphobia

A number of Men’s Rights Activists blatantly support misogyny in society or openly display misogyny in their groups. Some claim that Men’s Rights Activism itself is an anti-woman movement and has been since its creation. But Men’s Right Advocates passionately oppose misandry, so how could they support misogyny?

Related to its misogyny is the undercurrent of femiphobia in many MRA circles. Self-identified MRAs are contemptuous of men who they view as feminine and ridicule displays of stereotypically feminine behavior by men in and out of their ranks. Such men are mocked as “manginas”, a term created from the words “man” and “vagina”.

Men’s Rights Allies

Male Rights Activists are involved with a number of groups outside of their central movement. Some of these allies are in direct opposition to the rights of certain groups of people, such as PUA, a male seduction community whose techniques are based in manipulation, and white supremacist groups mired in racism and anti-Semitism.

Some MRAs claim to  support the rights of all people to defend issues which affect them. They say that all people, even those involved with what are seen as hate groups, have the right to speak out. But how can MRAs claim to be for equality while choosing these allies?

Is Men’s Rights Activism about equality for men or about inequality for everyone else? Again, it isn’t clear what MRAs are truly concerned with.

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33 thoughts on “The Question of Men’s Rights Activism

  1. MRAs defend issues which many people don’t know exist or don’t see as issues at all, such as parental rights and custody and.

    And… ?

    I know nothing about MRA, but I guess it’s an ok idea to protect men’s rights. But the way that works in reality might not be the best.

  2. I think at least in parental issues men should have a lot more say. There’s a lot of great dads out there and crappy mums.

    Also, alimony? really? what is this 1600s? Give me child support and I can take care of the rest myself.

    But that is about the only thing I can think about. Well maybe all those women who makes false rape claims.

  3. I think these MRAs are S-U-S-P-E-C-T. A male friend of mine said it best “These are people who find the world changing and have no idea how to manage this change, so they go back to what is familiar”

  4. Mira,

    That extra “and” was there by mistake. Fixed. But you can add reproductive rights.

    I’ve seen you debate with some self-identified MRAs online… you probably just thought they were regular sexists and misogynists. ;)

  5. Nkosazana,

    I don’t think MRAs deal well with the entire issue of rape, at all. I’ve always found some of their articles on it to be horrifying; they minimize something that is a true issue.


    Sherry,

    ‘ A male friend of mine said it best “These are people who find the world changing and have no idea how to manage this change, so they go back to what is familiar” ‘

    Yes. But then there are the younger MRAs (and there are many)… I’m interested in what exactly spurred them to become Men’s Rights Advocates. Some of them have interesting stories…

  6. I’ve seen you debate with some self-identified MRAs online… you probably just thought they were regular sexists and misogynists. ;)

    Really? I had no idea. I can’t tell a difference between MRA and a regular sexist.

  7. Yes, they lurk around some sites you regularly visit.

    The only noticeable difference with these ones is that they are usually more informed on men’s rights/issues.

  8. This is another thing to add to the scary list. Do you know an estimate number of how many MRA’s are in the U.S.? And are they more prevelant in certain areas than others? I’m just curious. I also agree with Nkosazana, I know some great dads out there that should have way more rights because the mothers are out to lunch!

  9. Alright! First on the scene.
    I am an MRA & I’m more than happy to address these questions, & erroneous assumptions about Men’s Rights Activism & the Men’s Rights Movement in general.
    First, we are not for men what feminists were for women. Get that clear right away. You are completely correct in calling us a “response to feminism”. We are everything feminists say they are, but aren’t (& never have been). It is understandable why you would think of us as a male supremacist movement, since feminism was nothing but a female supremacist movement. However, as I hope to prove, we are the true egalitarians.
    You say it is unclear if we MRAs are for men’s rights or for opposing everyone else’s rights. Well, to that I would like to see evidence of us opposing someone else’s rights. A pro-male agenda is not inherently anti-female.
    You say we “attack legitimate issues presented by feminists”. Well, if by “attack” you mean non-violently argue with contrary facts, statistics, logic & evidence that proves this so called “legitimate issue” is nothing more than a feminist hoax or factoid designed to foster hysteria & garner public support for them in the form of multi-millions & billions of taxpayer dollars which could have been put to good use instead of addressing a crisis which doesn’t even exist or worse, creates a crisis, then yeah, we “attack” the shit out of them.
    “Anti-feminists create a division between the rights of women & the rights of men”.
    How? I find that actually quite laughable. I’m sure the many women in our movement would too. We are MENS rights activists, because we are the first & only legitimate voice for men. However, we also care more about women’s issues than feminists do. We acknowledge men & women are complimentary to each other. You can’t focus on one & oppress the other or you only make things worse.
    You claim MRAs support misogyny. Again, a pro-male movement is not inherently anti-female. We have no hate for women or anybody. Occasionally some outright misogynists might come around claiming to be MRAs, but they soon learn that this isn’t what we are about at all & go elsewhere. I can comfortably state for the record, that neither I nor any MRA I know supports misogyny. & I’m RIGHT IN THERE baby!
    “Femiphobia” Another laughable contention. We acknowledge that many of the issues in the MRM exist because of well intentioned men with misplaced perceptions of chivalrous honour or “female divinity”. Since we see men & women as equals, we strongly oppose any philosophy which insists one sex is greater than or less than the other. As such we reject the patronizing doctrine of chivalry & call on women to earn respect as equals. To MRAs, men who persist in worshipping females & denigrating males are to egalitarianism what “Uncle Tom’s” were to the civil rights movement. So yeah, we ridicule them.
    Some MRAs are advocates of PUA’s, but the whole PUA thing is a completely separate concept which has nothing to do with the MRM.
    “how can MRAs claim to be for equality while choosing these allies?”
    What allies are you referring to. You give no examples.
    I haven’t yet met any real MRA who sides with any supremacist group or ideology.
    If it still “isn’t clear” what we MRA’s are concerned with , I strongly urge you to check out this link:

    http://www.avoiceformen.com/mission-and-values/about/

    At the bottom, you will find the unofficial MRM mission & values.

    I’m even willing to entertain any emails from people looking to learn more about what the Men’s Rights Movement is all about.
    Hope this was helpful.
    Razlo5000@gmail.com
    Cheers.

  10. Are you talking about what is generally referred to as the “manosphere?”

    I’ve noticed a few of these types creeping onto various message boards that I visit. I can tell their type by their general talking points – they’re all the same. Many are obsessed by a woman’s potentially high number of sexual partners, think a single woman over 30 is damaged goods and low quality and that women are at their “peak” at around 22… 25 is pushing it… use the terms “alpha” and “beta” a lot when describing men and most take up the mantle of the nice “beta” being passed over for the evil “alpha” (until it’s time for marriage, of course).

    Then they rail about how women initiate most divorces, and come up with some kind of made up statistical percentage about the vast number of women competing for a small number of alphas and how the rest of the men of the world are just going to opt out of marriage.

    Oh, and don’t ever say the word “feminism!!!”

    Look, I think that there are plenty of behaviors by both genders that need some tweaking and refining, but revisionist history making men the victims of evil women is just laughable.

    Now, I will say that the men who define themselves as “father’s rights” advocates seem to be much more thoughtful and focused on a clear issue and don’t come in on the “wimmin are eeevil” bandwagon. They seem to be focused on the situations in which the court system can seemingly disregard the importance of a father in the life of a child… I do personally know some men fighting uphill battles with the court system to remain in their child’s lives despite the actions of their ex-wives who’ve made some very capricious decisions. These men don’t focus on the ex-wives — they just want to see their children. I’m always happy to see men fighting to be fathers… I notice that these guys usually don’t hang out with the “men’s rights” guys though.

  11. @NikishaRiley
    To answer your question, there is no precise number of MRAs There are MRAs all over the world (& probably millions in India alone) but we don’t have a registry or anything. Thats pretty standard considering how beliefs go. (i.e. “I believe in woman’s rights but I’m not a feminist”.)
    However, I can tell you with absolute certainty that our numbers are growing. Very rapidly. We have measurable proof of this. In fact, it seems every time I log on I introduce myself to a new man or woman in the movement who is sick of the way men & boys are treated & want to do something about it.
    In the beginning, it was difficult to get people because of the erroneous assumptions that we are a bunch of woman haters & because we keep getting blocked & shut down because of pressure from feminists. However, our message IS getting out there & more & more people are coming around.
    Case in point, A Voice For Men Radio just got accepted to ITUNES.

  12. As I’ve said elsewhere, my biggest issue with MRAs is that it’s fundamentally a reactionary movement. By that I mean, they don’t seem to come up with anything original; it’s just an offshoot/derail of a feminist conversation. I told Z once, men who only have something to say when feminists are doing their thing are like White people complaining when non-Whites advocate for equality; they’re just bitching.

    As far as custody issues, most MRAs I’ve met are pretty misinformed about laws (well, most people are in general, but loudmouths who don’t actually know what they’re talking about are one of my pet peeves), and I don’t understand why they don’t advocate for dad’s rights and support initiatives that promote active fatherhood, especially for divorced/non-custodial dads, since those men are in the majority. Feminists seem a lot more critical of their own, while MRAs don’t ever seem to have much to say about the patriarchy.

  13. Wow! I’ve never really heard of this before, I had heard about PUA but never seen it real life. But MRA is new, I think the idea of dad’s rights is great, they should have more rights in court. The court is still rather leaning towards moms but that’s changing. But the alimony thing, really, alimony is not easy to get awarded in a divorce. There has to be specific circumstances for it to be set awarded and they aren’t as easy to met as you might think don’t let Hollywood fool you. Now child support is a different story and parents can be severely punished and have some rights taken for not paying child support but that’s up to the state they are in the U.S. But if the goal is to take away others rights b/c you can’t handle change is just silly. I try to stay away from lunacy on the net b/c there is a lot of it.

  14. I’d say MRA is equivalent to Gender-Feminism. It’s about a zero-sum game of gender warfare. One side wins, the other loses. And for the men who believe in it (and I assume the women too) it is about redressing historical wrongs, a sense of entitlement, and feelings of anger towards the opposite sex in general.

    Rather like Andrea Dworkin gave Feminism a bad name, so too do MRA’s give Masculism a bad name. A lot of Masculists are genuinely concerned with male-issues (like criminal violence, for instance, or prison-rape, or falling scholastic achievement) and many even have the sheer brilliance to notice that these issues predominantly affect Men of Color, specifically young Black & Hispanic men.

    But the MRA’s tend to be so vocal, they drown out the issue in senseless hatred that the original subject is lost among vitriol and ignorance… chiefly that of helping men dealing with uniquely male problems.

    However, I’ve found in my meandering of cyberspace a few choice places that discuss these issues from an extremely inclusive and positive place. Blogs like, “No, Seriously, What About Teh Menz?”, “Ethecofem”, “Toysoldiers”, and “emporiasexus” are my staples, as well as The Good Men Project website.

    While I don’t agree with everything they say, they offer a fresh and more positive alternative to Feminism’s lack of concern for men, mostly, and the sheer virulence of MRA’s.

  15. Nikisha,

    “Do you know an estimate number of how many MRA’s are in the U.S.?”

    Seems like “Razlo-MRA” above responded to this question already.

    “And are they more prevelant in certain areas than others?”

    The internet. ;)



    Bunny,

    “Are you talking about what is generally referred to as the “manosphere?”’

    The “manosphere” does include many self-identified MRAs. But Men’s Rights Activism is larger than the manosphere, from what I understand.

    “I’ve noticed a few of these types creeping onto various message boards that I visit. I can tell their type by their general talking points – they’re all the same.”

    Oh yes. I’m familiar with those so-called “facts”. I just skip over their comments, mostly, unless it’s directly relevant to the conversation. I can’t take the alpha/beta talk from anyone.

  16. Razlo-MRA,

    “First, we are not for men what feminists were for women. Get that clear right away. You are completely correct in calling us a “response to feminism”.’

    Actually, I never said either. I’m discussing what some people have said. Unless I explicitly use the word “I”, most of my posts are about general opinions/statements.

    “We are everything feminists say they are, but aren’t (& never have been)…feminism was nothing but a female supremacist movement.”

    Well, that’s a matter of opinion, isn’t it? :)

    “It is understandable why you would think of us as a male supremacist movement”

    I didn’t say that either; that’s not stated anywhere in the above article.

    “You say it is unclear if we MRAs are for men’s rights or for opposing everyone else’s rights. Well, to that I would like to see evidence of us opposing someone else’s rights. A pro-male agenda is not inherently anti-female.”

    Right, it isn’t. But much of what is seen from self-identified MRAs online is anti-female.

    If you need evidence, look no further than your own Youtube channel. The first video is by someone called “TheHappyMisogynist”. To start with…

    ‘You say we “attack legitimate issues presented by feminists”. Well, if by “attack” you mean non-violently argue with contrary facts’

    No, I don’t. ;)

    ‘ “Anti-feminists create a division between the rights of women & the rights of men”.
    How? I find that actually quite laughable. I’m sure the many women in our movement would too. We are MENS rights activists, because we are the first & only legitimate voice for men.”

    Okay, I don’t see where that contradicts the original point… I’m sure there are women who participate in MRA (not so sure on the “many” part); that doesn’t prove anything.

    “You claim MRAs support misogyny. Again, a pro-male movement is not inherently anti-female. We have no hate for women or anybody.”

    Again, “TheHappyMisogynist”?

    ‘ “Femiphobia” Another laughable contention.” ‘

    Is it? I noticed you completely ignored addressing the issue of terms like “mangina”.

    “Again, a pro-male movement is not inherently anti-female…Since we see men & women as equals, we strongly oppose any philosophy which insists one sex is greater than or less than the other.”

    That seems to disagree with the commentary of Zek (who has a lot of experience with the MRM and MRA):

    “I’d say MRA is equivalent to Gender-Feminism. It’s about a zero-sum game of gender warfare. One side wins, the other loses.”

    What say you?

    ‘ “how can MRAs claim to be for equality while choosing these allies?”
    What allies are you referring to. You give no examples.’

    Yes, I did — PUA and some white supremacist groups.

    “I haven’t yet met any real MRA who sides with any supremacist group or ideology.”

    How do you determine who is a “real” MRA? What is a “fake” MRA?

    ‘ If it still “isn’t clear” what we MRA’s are concerned with , I strongly urge you to check out this link:’

    That link is great and all, but so?

    You can say anything on paper (or on screen, in this case), and do an entirely different thing in reality. The reality is that some MRAs are misogynistic, reactionary, and hateful, as evidenced by their views and writings. That may not apply to you or your personal buddies, but it does apply to some. That reality doesn’t go away because you wish it not so.

    …as I hope to prove, we are the true egalitarians.”

    You haven’t proven that, but I’m glad a “true blue” MRA has joined the discussion so those who aren’t familiar with them can see things up close and personal. :)

  17. Jasmin,

    “As I’ve said elsewhere, my biggest issue with MRAs is that it’s fundamentally a reactionary movement. By that I mean, they don’t seem to come up with anything original; it’s just an offshoot/derail of a feminist conversation.”

    Right, some sites wouldn’t have anything to discuss if it weren’t for feminists and women’s rights issues. The focus on other people doesn’t help their credibility

    Zek,

    Ugh, that “…of Color” term. :P

    Otherwise, I agree that many MRAs are just like radical feminists. The funny thing is that they don’t see how they are just another side of the coin.

    Eugenia,

    “Wow! I’ve never really heard of this before, I had heard about PUA but never seen it real life.”

    I had my own experience, not too long ago. “Wow” about sums it up.

  18. Alee,

    Haha, oh yeah I forgot you’re kinda “eh” about that term. Sorry!

    Next time I’ll just say, “The Men Who Are Not White” =P

  19. @ Alee
    Whether these are your personal opinions of those of the majority, the aim of my comment here was to prove this canard as false.

    …feminism was nothing but a female supremacist movement.”
    “Well, that’s a matter of opinion, isn’t it?”
    -No, I’d say thats a matter of fact.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/TheHappyMisogynist#p/u/9/gVdYXh18OY4

    I can email a 15 page word document with bullet point facts & quotes from feminists themselves to further prove this to any interested. Refer to my email above.

    “But much of what is seen from self-identified MRAs online is anti-female.
    If you need evidence, look no further than your own Youtube channel. The first video is by someone called “TheHappyMisogynist”. To start with…”

    If you looked on “theHappyMisogynist’s TY channel, you’d see this in (Paul Elam’s) description:
    “Misogynist: A man who thinks women are rational, intelligent, mature human beings and expects them to act that way.
    I don’t hate women. Indeed I hate no one at all. But since any MRA will tell you that they get called a misogynist regularly just for speaking up for men, I decided to save my detractors the trouble. Thus the youtube handle.”

    ‘You say we “attack legitimate issues presented by feminists”. Well, if by “attack” you mean non-violently argue with contrary facts…

    “No, I don’t”

    Okay, so how about you give some evidence of us “attacking” legitimate feminist issues” & I’ll explain to you the logic & reason for why we do so?

    You assert “Anti-feminists create a division between the rights of women & the rights of men”.
    I’ve already explained that this is false. The MRM is not focused solely with the rights of men. If that were true we wouldn’t have many (& yes, I do mean many) women in the movement. If you still disagree, again, give an example to justify why.

    “I noticed you completely ignored addressing the issue of terms like ‘mangina'”.
    -Do I need to? Instead of just saying “mangina” I thought I would give your readers (who are clearly very much in the dark about the MRM) an explanation of what we believe a ‘mangina’ really is.
    “To MRAs, men who persist in worshipping females & denigrating males are to egalitarianism what “Uncle Tom’s” were to the civil rights movement. So yeah, we ridicule them.”
    You aren’t sure of the terms we use to do this? I’m not afraid to call a mangina a mangina.

    I’ve been an MRA for over 2 years. I’ve never heard of this “Zek” but…
    “MRA is equivalent to Gender-Feminism. It’s about a zero-sum game of gender warfare. One side wins, the other loses.”
    Well, if one side is female supremacists, & the other is the egalitarian MRM, then yeah, I agree with him. It is a zero sum game & those bigots are going down.

    “Yes, I did — PUA and some white supremacist groups.”
    Again, the PUA thing is an entirely separate entity with no ties to the MRM from the MRM perspective. There are even MRAs who vehemently speak out against PUAs. Now I’m not a PUA myself, but from what I’ve seen these guys aren’t a sexist or supremacist group. Second, there is ABSOLUTELY ZERO white supremacists in the MRM. None. Zero.
    We welcome anybody into the MRM & do not draw lines along race, sex, religion or anything else. Period.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/pinegrove33#p/search/0/_sHgGPcQYPk

    “How do you determine who is a “real” MRA? What is a “fake” MRA?”
    Go to A VoiceForMen.com. This place is HQ for real MRAs. The men & women at A Voice For Men & at all websites linked to that site are the real deal.
    NOMAS, & places like the “good man project” are feminist MANGINAS posing as MRAs in an attempt to pathologies us & turn moderate people against the MRM. (you know, these people must REALLY fear our message to go to such great lengths to silence us. Why can’t they just THINK & RESPOND?)

    “You can say anything on paper (or on screen, in this case), and do an entirely different thing in reality.”
    -LOL, well feminism is a stirling example of that.

    “The reality is that some MRAs are misogynistic, reactionary, and hateful, as evidenced by their views and writings.”
    -Again, prove it. Show me the money! I’ve been in the MRM for over 2 years now. I mean I’ve been TOTALLY IMMERSED in it. Every movement has its share or nuts & odd balls, but if there was even a hint of a male/white supremacy or a hateful agenda in the core MRM values, I & many others wouldn’t be a part of it. Where is your justification for calling us “misogynists, or hateful”?
    “That reality doesn’t go away because you wish it not so.”
    This is fictional perception isn’t made a reality just because some feminists wish it to be. If we truly were hateful sexists, racists & supremacists, feminists could dismiss all MRAs as “haters” without having to address our arguments. They do this because in 1 on 1 debate with MRAs on the issues, they lose & they know it.

    I believe I have proven the MRM to be the egalitarian movement, but if more proof is required, this “true RED” MRA more than willing to provide it.

  20. “Ugh, that “…of Color” term.”
    Which one, Zek?

    “Otherwise, I agree that many MRAs are just like radical feminists. The funny thing is that they don’t see how they are just another side of the coin.”

    Mind explaining why that is?

  21. I’ve been an MRA for over 2 years. I’ve never heard of this “Zek” but…

    And I’ve been alive for 25 years, yet I’ve never heard of you either! Haha, it’s a big world isn’t it?

    But I notice you use a couple terms interchangeably. MRA and MRM are related, but not the same. MRA is a group WITHIN the MRM. But they are not the MRM itself. In fact, the MRM is so diverse, that many of them are often labeled as Feminists by some!

    However, I am glad you agree that virulent MRA’s and radical-Feminists are pretty much both bad news bears. I think specifically of The Spearhead as a place where MRA’s gather en masse that is characterized by very privileged, racist, misogynistic, and extremely reactionary conversations. Especially in the comments section. Which is why many others in the MRM tend to distance themselves from them — with a ten-foot cattle-prod! Haha =)

    Also, the term I used that Alee prefers to avoid is “Men of Color”, specifically the “of Color” part which she believes can give the wrong impression. (I’m uncertain, but you can read her post. It’s pretty good.)

  22. @Zek
    I don’t believe MRAs & the MRM are separate. I have never heard of an MRA make such a statement. Sure there are some who occasionally work under an MRM banner such as the good people of S.A.V.E. (http://www.saveservices.org/) who do not yet openly call themselves MRA’s but our principle goals are essentially the same. Who knows, perhaps in a short time when the MRM & the title “MRA” grow beyond ridiculous assumptions of “hate, sexism, & racism” (I don’t even know how race got in there), these people will embrace the title they have always been without sacrificing their credibility or alienating the victims they seek to help. Figuratively speaking, when you’re talking about the MRM, you’re talking primarily about those at the forefront of that movement. There are none more active in this than MRA’s. Without a doubt, “A Voice For Men” is THE centre of the Men’s Rights Movement. Everything else, The Spearhead, Men’s News Daily, Shrink for Men…, are satellite sites of that website & its radio show on blogtalkradio.com.

    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/avoiceformen/2011/03/02/an-introduction-to-the-mens-movement

    “The Spearhead as a place where MRA’s gather en masse that is characterized by very privileged, racist, misogynistic, and extremely reactionary conversations.”
    If you wouldn’t mind, please show me some examples of each complete with links.

    Any virulent person is bad news for whatever they represent. Of coarse I agree with that, but doesn’t that go without saying? As I said to Alee, every movement has its share of nuts & odd balls, but if there was even a hint of a male/white supremacist or a hateful agenda in the core MRM values, I & many others wouldn’t be a part of it.
    Again, if you want to see MRAs gathering en masse over matters of the MRM, A Voice For Men is THE place to go & guys like Paul Elam, JTO, & Bernard Chapin are THE MEN to look to. These guys are without a doubt, the wisest & most ROCK SOLID gents among us. Paul is also the Host of “A Voice For Men” radio.

  23. Umm, sorry, but why should feminists be concerned about men and boys? If the focus of a movement or an organization is X, why do some people keep asking why doesn’t said movement focus on A, B, Y & Z? This reminds me of those black civil rights orgs which fell into that trap, advocated on behalf of others, and got nothing in return. I’m pretty sure that most Hispanics don’t give a dime to the NAACP for instance, but they’ll give it to La Raza (which incidentally doesn’t lift a finger for black folks).
    My point – if the focus of an organization is X, then they should focus mostly on X or run the risk of taking on too much and providing ineffective representation for X, which is really the goal of the “why don’t you advocate for A, B, Y & Z?” contingent.

    As to the post – Alee, I’ve never heard of this “movement.” It’s funny that men pretty much run things in this world, but some males still feel that they are being marginalized. I wonder in what socioeconomic brackets the men who comprise this movement mostly fall into. I think it will tell an interesting story.

  24. I love the fact that MRAs mirror the Feminist in their disdain for the opposite sex. Shows feminist what we’ve experienced. You don’t bring out a marching band to fight an Army, you bring an Army. We need ALL types, nice ones included, but radicals get ish done (THANKS FOR THE LESSON FEMINIST). I have nothing against them and will never get in their way (Thank YOU Black Feminist, we’re learning).

    Feminist didn’t care of the bulk of women ESPECIALLY black women who destroyed a whole community w/”Strong, Independent” (government-subsidied) women. Instead women/feminist try to defend the plethora of destroyed families. I’m glad to see the white community/Manosphere/PUA (The flipside of Cosmopolitan and Vogues “50 ways to seduce.blah, blah, blah) waking up and reacting with anger as well. It’s healthy, for my side. And really, isn’t that all that matters? LOL.

    If us black men can just save one other community from the horrors of socialist, child-kidnapping, child-killing, misandrist, marxist women it’ll all be worth it, RIGHT?.

    I mean black feminist never said a peep about the biased family court. They just hid behind “All these men are leaving us” when they in fact led in the abandonment divorce numbers 40 yrs straight..and counting. I’ll NEVER forgive that and rightly so. Why is it better if men don’t openly hate on all feminist, especially the black ones, your radical assault has been rather successful.

    Thanx for the example,
    No Justice,
    No Peace

  25. LOL. Do I know Black women or not?

    Come at us?
    We’re gonna come at you.
    We’re laughing at you at the other site?

    care to join Black Feminist?

  26. Razlo,

    Again, you’re missing the point.

    I don’t believe MRAs & the MRM are separate.I have never heard of an MRA make such a statement.

    1. I am not an MRA. I do consider my a Masculist, and sympathetic with the MRM, but I am not an MRA.

    2. MRA is part of the MRM, but they are merely ONE group in the entire movement. Rather gender-Feminism or radical-Feminism is merely one group in the rather large movement of Feminism.

    Do you understand now? All MRA’s are part of the MRM, but not all MRM’s are part of the MRA.

    As for The Spearhead being a hateful, prejudice, and often ignorant gathering place I suggest you look at the contributor blogroll. F—- B—-, advocates scientific-racism, drug-use, and misogyny, among other things. Also there’s G— P—, who also advocates scientific-racism, writes blog-posts slandering all Black people as violent, stupid, etc., and frequently participates in other reactionary bigotry at IMF (F—‘s blog), and other HBD (human bio-diversity) blogs. These are two featured contributors who have written a fair number of posts, and who openly engage in racism, sexism, and other forms of prejudice.

    Sorry, but the writing is on the (digital) wall.

    Robyne,

    Masculism as a whole is concerned with fixing the falling performance of young boys in school, to the point where areas of higher education are almost completely dominated by women now. (An amazing reversal, to be true, but one that shows boys need help catching up in school.) Also the epidemic of prison-rape is an issue that men advocate for, again because it is something no one seems to address. Lastly, criminal violence, something which overwhelmingly happens to men is another thing that Masculists and MRM’s often work against. Again, because that issue seems not to be as important to those in power. And it is very important to stress that all three of these issues happen to all men, but particularly Black & Hispanic men who now face a double-form of oppression rather like Black women experience with mainstream Feminism. Basically that they oppressed once on the basis of race, and again through their gender.

    If I may, I suggest you read upthread and check out the websites I recommended to educate yourself on the movement, since at the moment you seem upset without knowing much about it.

  27. @Robynne

    Why should feminists be concerned with men & boys?
    Okay….well, aside from the fact feminism was sold as a movement for equality, & ignoring the fact you cannot “liberate” a group of people who are already free & privileged, men are half the population. Men are husbands, boyfriends, sons, brothers, grandfathers, friends, extended family…etc. Men have always been the protectors & safeguards of society and oppressing them has a highly negative impact on everybody near & dear to them. Especially for people who rely on them.
    This might come as a shock, & I realize I might alienate some people here, but, men & boys are people too.
    How about we just do away with all supremacist movements? Sounds good to me.

    “It’s funny that men pretty much run things in this world, but some males still feel that they are being marginalized. I wonder in what socioeconomic brackets the men who comprise this movement mostly fall into. I think it will tell an interesting story.”

    While it is true the top 1% or so of men have historically held all or most of the power, run by men has never in all human history translated into run for men. The complete opposite is true in fact. Run by men has always, ALWAYS, meant run for women.
    What does one’s socioeconomic bracket have to do with the substance of their arguments?
    You want an interesting story, I’ll give you one. Its called:
    “The privilege of men in society”
    -Over 80% of the homeless & suicides are men.
    -Men today die on average 6 years sooner than women. (In the great depression days this variance was 1 year.)
    -Men have no reproductive rights & win 8% of child custody battles. (Women win over 85%).
    -And of the top 15 leading causes of death, men lead in 12 categories, are tied in two & trail in one.
    http://www.cdc.gov/NCHS/data/nvsr/nvsr58/nvsr58_19.pdf (TABLE B)
    “I don’t know who you are, Sir. But I can tell you what you are worth. If your partner was to cut off your penis tonight, the world would laugh”-Angry Harry.

    http://www.angryharry.com/

  28. Zek,

    “Next time I’ll just say, “The Men Who Are Not White” =P’

    “Non-white men” is also a suitable term. ;)

    Robynne,

    “Umm, sorry, but why should feminists be concerned about men and boys? If the focus of a movement or an organization is X, why do some people keep asking why doesn’t said movement focus on A, B, Y & Z?”

    Yes, a million times over.

    It’s exactly like those who go to BWE/BWIR blogs and demand, “What about black men?”… What about them? You can go to a blog catered to that demographic if you’re concerned with them.

    “As to the post – Alee, I’ve never heard of this “movement.” It’s funny that men pretty much run things in this world, but some males still feel that they are being marginalized.”

    There are some legitimate issues, but yes, for the most part it’s still men > women in the vast majority of places on our grand planet Earth. Even if a man is penniless.

  29. Razlo-MRA,

    “…feminism was nothing but a female supremacist movement.”
    “Well, that’s a matter of opinion, isn’t it?”
    -No, I’d say thats a matter of fact.”

    It’s still a matter of opinion. You can cherry-pick quotes and take them out of context to present views any way you want. Of course the same can be done with MRAs — there are more than enough quotes to choose from.

    “If you looked on “theHappyMisogynist’s TY channel, you’d see this in (Paul Elam’s) description:”

    I did look on his channel, and I saw a video bashing “the modern woman”, amongst others. So again, if what a person says and does are at odds with each other, I’ll go with the latter.

    “Okay, so how about you give some evidence of us “attacking” legitimate feminist issues” & I’ll explain to you the logic & reason for why we do so?’

    Again, I refer to your videos. If you ridicule the topic of rape against women and dismiss it as “feminist hysteria”, then you’re attacking a legitimate issue.

    “I’ve already explained that this is false. The MRM is not focused solely with the rights of men. If that were true we wouldn’t have many (& yes, I do mean many) women in the movement.”

    There are plenty of male-identified women who are more than happy to throw women under the bus. And I don’t see anything in your videos or links so far that is uplifting women (not that I was expecting to because, following what Robynne said, women are obviously not who the MRM was created for).

    I’ve seen the word mangina used outside of the context you mentioned… and I’m sure you have too.

    “Again, the PUA thing is an entirely separate entity with no ties to the MRM from the MRM perspective. There are even MRAs who vehemently speak out against PUAs.”

    Many MRAs ally themselves with PUAs, which was exactly my point and which you verified in your first comment.

    “Now I’m not a PUA myself, but from what I’ve seen these guys aren’t a sexist…group.”

    Okay.

    I think we’re almost done here.

    “Second, there is ABSOLUTELY ZERO white supremacists in the MRM. None. Zero.”

    Lol. Who are you to say this? You obviously can’t –and don’t– know every MRA.

  30. @Razlo-MRA,

    *sigh* You’re typical. Very typical.

    Your comments ended up in my spam box, probably because they contained too many links and you sent the same comment several times. I clear my spam box at the end of each week, so I didn’t see them.

    The fact that you’ve quickly descended into, “She’s blocking my comments; she’s silencing me because she’s afraid of the truth!!!11!!!” is so typical of what I’ve seen of MRAs — persecution complex, hostility, and angst (you’ve proven my points for me…). Reason this out: why would I block your comments now when (a) I didn’t initially and (b) you weren’t even responding to me? Trust me, I don’t care enough about your comments, or MRA in general, to block them. I talk about countless social issues; there is nothing particularly special about this one. It’s just not that serious.

    Unfortunately for you I’m not in the mood for paranoia. Your comments will remain in spam, to be deleted at the end of the week.

    ETA: Write about me as much as you want — I approve, since you’re giving me more exposure. Your hot-headed attitude proves the point of this article a million times over; it didn’t take long for you to show yourself.

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