The Nice Guy ™

nice-guyThe Nice Guy ™ is a self-designated or given title for men who are usually kind, respectful, and friendly — especially towards women. The Nice Guy is well-liked, and even loved in his social circles, but there is one thing that frustrates him to no end.

He can never get the women he wants.

The Nice Guy often suffers in silence from a sense of neglect and mistreatment. He wonders why he is constantly passed over by women for men that seem to be his complete opposite — men who make a habit of not caring about the needs and desires of the women they are involved with. He is more bothered by this than he lets on.

After some time the Nice Guy may begin to believe that it is women who are the problem, not him. Women just don’t know a good thing — a Nice Guy ™ — when they see it. If they did, they would opt to live happily ever after with him instead of repeatedly choosing men who only break their hearts. Women must like jerks, not nice guys.

But what the Nice Guy fails to realize is that it is not his niceness that causes him to fail with women. It’s many of his other qualities and behavior that are the reason why he finishes last, every time.

The Nice Guy is insecure

Confidence is an attractive quality to both genders. What Nice Guys often lack, and what their jerky counterparts tend to have in abundance is confidence and a strong sense of self-worth. Confident people need little reassurance, are positive, and can even boost the confidence of those around them. Thus, the choice between an insecure guy and a confident guy is an easy one.

The Nice Guy is passive

Passive nice guys go with the flow, are overly cooperative, and try not to be noticed in any large way. And they get exactly what they hope for — they aren’t noticed. Anything in excess, even niceness and cooperation, can be a bad thing. Women begin to think the Nice Guy has no personality of his own; he simply agrees with the people around him. He brings nothing new, so he doesn’t intrigue.

The Nice Guy doesn’t make a move

Related to the above-mentioned lack of self-confidence and passiveness, Nice Guys find it difficult to approach women they are interested in. They over-analyze or talk themselves out of it, thinking they will be rejected. By the time they muster up enough determination to tell a woman how they feel, she has already found someone else.

The Nice Guy is the friend

The Nice Guy will often befriend women, and have several female friends. These women turn to him for advice and enjoy his company; they see him as a great friend. But that is the problem — he is a good friend, only. Not boyfriend material. Not significant other potential. Women don’t want to ruin their friendship, and besides, they don’t see the Nice Guy that way and probably never will.

The Nice Guy has issues

Of course the Nice Guy is nice. But what else is he? He may be immature, lazy, and have really bad breath. And that is not helping him. Niceness will not erase undesirable traits and behavior. No matter how undeniably nice the Nice Guy is.

Most importantly, the Nice Guy doesn’t realize that he can be both nice and assertive, humble and confident. Once he figures this out, the Nice Guy will never have to worry about being just the Nice Guy ™ again.

Disclaimer: Every Nice Guy will not show these qualities — or a lack of success with women — and not all men who have these qualities are Nice Guys.

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49 thoughts on “The Nice Guy ™

  1. Great post! This describes a friend of mine perfectly. I’ve given him advice in the women department and it’s apparently working (I’m sure it was all me :). He was just dating someone, they broke up, but that was his doing. She was apparently baby crazy.

  2. Hi wanderlust, welcome.

    Glad to hear your friend is (finally? :)) figuring out how to navigate the dating world as a Nice Guy.

  3. Ah you’re working yourself up to the Good Black Men™ article I see..

    Well I don’t know if I have any actual experiences with Nice Guys as you describes them. Most Nice Guys that I know don’t seem to have it THAT hard to get women. But they don’t got all the things on your list..

  4. Nkosazana,

    “Ah you’re working yourself up to the Good Black Men™ article I see..”

    Lol! I am not writing that article. You all are simply not ready for it (and neither am I). 🙂

    “Most Nice Guys that I know don’t seem to have it THAT hard to get women. But they don’t got all the things on your list..”

    Well, yes, many Nice Guys won’t fit this criteria, and thus won’t have as much trouble in dating.

  5. Right on! There is a HUGE difference between being a Nice Guy and a DOORMAT. Are you stealth-reading men out there getting it?

  6. I’ll talk about two types “Mr. Nice Guy” and “Mr Soap Opera Guy”. Soap Opera guys resemble men who appear on daytime soap operas … traditionally tall, dark, handsome, and somewhat dangerous looking dudes. Your basic male ‘hottie’. This guy found out a long time ago that he fit the bill for a lot of women’s ideas about the “type” they were looking for. Obviously, not ALL women like the Soap Opera Guy, and hearing from women who state that such is not their type, doesn’t really invalidate the basic point that a LOT of women go for this particular guy.

    So as Mr Soap Opera Guy moved through his teens and college and beyond, he really didn’t need to be very “nice” to have lots of women dropping handkerchiefs in his path.

    Now when it comes to “Mr. Nice Guy” … well … he didn’t really capture the hearts of a lot of girls the first time he showed up at the dance. So of course he became somewhat insecure. This isn’t terribly hard math to figure out. He didn’t have the Soap Opera look, or the Soap Opera, god’s gift to women, attitude that comes with. So as he moved through the painful teens, and beyond, he found that being “nice”, and “polite”, and “respectful” was what he thought he was supposed to do … and then he finds himself really confused later on when he is invited for tea with the girls, and then they leave him to pick up the check and scurry off for late night hookups with Mr Soap Opera Guy who, by the way, they complain about treating them so badly, etc.

    So this happens a few times, being nice to a girl who ends up running after the local bad ass who happens to look like the hot guys on TV. And Mr Nice Guy gets even more confused then ever … why don’t the girls like ME? I’m everything they say they want, and still I can’t get a girlfriend, all women must be screwed up somehow.

    It’s actually not that complicated as far as I can see. Nobody is really that screwed up here. Many women are holding out for the hot looking bad boy type and are continually shocked when they finally get him .. and he turns out to be ‘not so nice’. Why should he be nice? He doesn’t need to be, basically. Never did. I had a buddy like this, we’d go out and women were constantly fainting at his feet, he didn’t have to do ANYTHING, it became sort of a joke with us. Cockiness, and confidence, aren’t that difficult to develop along the way when this is your life experience. Nice? He was anything but, with a trail of broken little girl hearts a mile long, he was just your basic “rascal”. He didn’t even pretend to be nice. And sure, there were those women who claimed what a player, and what a loser he was, and how he was more arrogant than confident, and how gross that is, etc. But he really could care less, since he had plenty of ‘business’, more than he could ever handle.

    So Mr. Nice Guy isn’t that hard to figure out. It’s basic evolution.

    Nothing is sadder then the day Mr. Nice Guy decides that he is tired of being so nice, and is going to behave more like Mr. Soap Opera Guy, since “women want to be treated badly” in his narrow view of the world. Maybe he takes a Pick Up Chicks seminar and is told by the resident PUA that women respond well to “negs”, and that he should stop “supplicating” them and to “act more like a man”.

    Truth is, many attractive women, do indeed react well to the concept of a “neg” … BUT ONLY IF THE GUY LOOKS LIKE A SOAP OPERA GUY. Because he can get away with it. God help the short, somewhat chubby guy who tries to “neg” as way to meet a girl. Being “nice” is all this guy has going for him … when he loses the niceness … it’s going to get worse than he ever imagined.

    All that said, I do agree that Mr. Nice Guy can and should work on improving himself along certain dimensions. But he needs to accept the limitations of his raw “packaging”. Good genes are VERY attractive to the opposite sex .. it’s sort of how biology works. He can work with what he has, but the most important thing is for him is to be realistic and accept this fundamental fact of life. Hot guys are rarely nice, they don’t have to be.

    Fire away.

  7. Sherry,

    “There is a HUGE difference between being a Nice Guy and a DOORMAT. Are you stealth-reading men out there getting it?”

    Lol. I think they need to hear it one more time, for emphasis. 🙂

    Rob,

    Cool story, bro. 😉

    ‘Truth is, many attractive women, do indeed react well to the concept of a “neg” … BUT ONLY IF THE GUY LOOKS LIKE A SOAP OPERA GUY. Because he can get away with it.”

    You wrote all of that, to then write this?… :/

    Why are you assuming the Nice Guy has to be ugly/overweight? That’s not necessarily the case at all. Nor does the confident, jerky guy have to be extraordinarily good-looking.

  8. @ Rob: all that you wrote, works for the opposite gender, yet men still run after such women!. Sounds to me like most of us humans are terribly superficial……

  9. foosrock,

    You’re right about that. Some men complain that the jerk guy gets all the women and the Nice Guy ™ is sidelined. Yet we see this all the time with the party girls or “mean” girls getting the guys, and the quiet, caring conservative girls going dateless.

  10. Yet we see this all the time with the party girls or “mean” girls getting the guys, and the quiet, caring conservative girls going dateless.

    I frequently bring this up to outraged “Nice Guys.” I say there are many “Nice Girls” out there who might be conservative, quiet, average-looking (but not ugly) maybe a little mousey, but overall, women who would be thrilled to receive the attention of the “Nice Guy.” However, they don’t get approached by their perceived equal, because the “Nice Guy” is going after the same anointed “Hot Girls” that the “Bad Boys” chase.

    “Nice Guy” usually gets rather angry when this is stated. 😉

    We had a marriage in my office like this recently. One of the women who works in IT is about 35, never married, quiet, conservative, plainly dressed, wears glasses and has a plain hairstyle. She’s not ugly at all and actually has a nice figure, but will never be a “babe” because that’s not her. She’s always going to be plain.

    She put an ad online and met her male equal… they dated for three months and married four months after that. I have a feeling both of them really didn’t want to do much more dating and were simply happy that there was finally a mutual attraction… so they didn’t waste time tying the knot!

    But I bet a lot of “Nice Guys” would shudder at the thought of going for this type of woman, even though they probably would have the best shot of finding what they want in terms of a loving and supportive partner with her.

  11. Bunny,

    ‘there are many “Nice Girls” out there who might be conservative, quiet, average-looking (but not ugly) maybe a little mousey, but overall, women who would be thrilled to receive the attention of the “Nice Guy.” However, they don’t get approached by their perceived equal, because the “Nice Guy” is going after the same anointed “Hot Girls” that the “Bad Boys” chase.’

    Yes, I was going to include that (and a few other reasons) in the post, but I didn’t want to make the post super-long. There are a lot of reasons why the Nice Guy is alone, and none of these have to do with his niceness. That is a huge one — overlooking women that would be glad to have them.

  12. Exactly!

    On a serious note, these posts have me thinking again that folks on both sides of the fence are feeling unappreciated. Maybe we should all focus on that …

  13. I know this type! I have/had a few friends who fit the description perfectly! The thing is, all the girls wanted them for their friends, meaning, they recognized them as decent human beings and they actually wanted to spend time with those guys… But none of them wanted these guys as boyfriends.

    (So much about “women choose men based on personality”)

    The problem with nice guys is that they make themselves look too passive, and most women dislike that. Well, not “dislike” dislike, but I guess woman are attracted to men who seem either dominant or independent. Independence is another quality that woman are attracted to.

    So maybe we should ask ourselves what are the qualities that “jerks” have that make women so attracted to them, even if it’s not for their own good.

    Also, yes, there are “nice girls” who suffer similar treatment (always a friend, never a boy/girlfriend). I am not sure if it’s because these nice girls look plain (do they?), but it’s sure difficult for them to make men see them as females.

    I think I’m one of those girls, or at least I appear as one. But I don’t think I ever dated a typical “nice guy”; like I said elsewhere, I was too shy to approach a guy and nice guys never approached me.

  14. Hmm… There are two kinds of Nice Guys ™.

    Nice guys. And guys who say they’re nice guys. Just like Cool guys, nice guys never go around saying how nice they are. And guys who say they’re nice are always bemoaning about it. Meanwhile, genuinely nice guys tend to be too busy being happy to really care much about any of this.

  15. Totally agree that this tendency to chase attractive genes goes for both men and women. It’s probably more true for men actually. I’ve found male friends to be more honest about their shallowness …. She needs to be hot first and foremost. Kindness, honesty, intelligence, sense of humor ? Sure ok all nice to have. But hot is a must. The rest is somewhat negotiable. This is not true for all guys. But it holds true for enough.

  16. You see, this “hot” thing is what confuses me about (many) guys. I understand you must be (physically) attracted to the person, but why does she have to be “hot”?!?

  17. Bunny took the words out of mouth with her reply. The only thing that I have to add is that there is a difference between being nice and being kind. I prefer a kind, confident and respectful man to a nice guy because niceness is like a shirt that can be put on or taken off at the wearer’s convenience while kindness is more genuine.

    And I know am a little late Alee but am glad you decided to keep on blogging. Great post.

  18. This used to be me several years ago. I think insecurity/lack of confidence was the main thing. Eventually I manned up and asked several of my guy friends who where much better with women than I was what I was doing wrong, and they broke it down for me. This post is pretty much spot on. Confidence is key, and guys need to stop drinking to give themselves a false sense of it. No woman wants a sloppy drunk bumping into them trying to hit on them. Cut out alcohol, start going to the gym regularly, know what you want and go after it. Too many “nice guys” are just coasting and letting life drift by. And then they turn to PUA’s and become ignorant assholes haha.

  19. LOL, I mentioned Nice Guys (TM) on my blog the other day in a comment to Mira, and I was definitely thinking along the lines of what Bunny mentioned. Nice Guys are often uninterested in Nice Girls, but then they bemoan the fact that Cool Girls aren’t interested in them (and are so “shallow”) while not realizing that being nice doesn’t make them any less shallow.

    I’ve also read a description of the trademark Nice Guy that is basically a manipulator. He’s nice to get stuff out of people (generally women) and thinks his niceness makes him deserving of their attention.

  20. It took me a looooooooooooong time before I would go for “the nice guy.” I was always attracted to the bad guys for some reason. Prior to my current relationship, my longest relationship was with a “nice guy,” and I put that in quotation because he ended up being bad during the end of our relationship (asshole).

    Anyways.

    I like nice guys, but the confidence is what can kill it for me. Low self-esteem / efficacy is a major turn off for me. I can handle everything else, but I can’t handle that.

  21. Most of these so called nice guys aren’t nice at all. Who is the girl they tend to want? The video model type chick or trophy…the normal women get overlooked because they don’t make the so-called nice guy the envy of every man on the road.

    I tell guys all the time, if you are not looking for the committed long term relationship but just to get in as many girls’ pants as the azzholes, you’re not a nice guy, you’re an azzhole without the game to get the girls! If you and him just want to have sex with the hottest girls possible then you both have the same shallow goals, simply not getting the girls you want doesn’t make you automatically nice!

    Some of them didn’t even attempt to talk to the girl they wanted, they just assumed cause she was hot she wouldn’t be interested. Lack of confidence is not the woman’s problem, she doesn’t owe anyone a spoonfeeding of her attentions because she’s so blindingly attractive to you.

    Most of the guys who call themselves nice just put themselves in that category cause they don’t have the social skills and/or looks to bring out their inner jerk. Truly nice men treat women nicely no matter if she “deserves” it or not…their niceness is an internal choice not a knee-jerk reaction to external stimuli.

    They don’t want to hear it of course. But fact is 80/20 rule is alive and well on both sides of the fence. 80% of men want the same 20% of women at their side. 80% of women want the same 20% of men at their side. But a guy who is average in looks, personality, and life achievements shouldn’t feel entitled to a superstar…he should find someone in his league and stop trying to fly past his nest. Kind of like the biblical principle of not being unequally yoked. Exactly like it, actually. People who luck out and get a Jessica Rabbit relationship have exactly that, luck. Most people tend to be with folks of similar characteristics physically (and most of what a nice guy is complaining he can’t get has to do with physical cause SOME woman out there wants him, he just doesn’t notice/want/place a priority on her).

    Plus some of the nice guys think lack of a personality doesn’t matter. One thing even a facially challenged dude like li’l wayne will always have is a personality. Men are expected to be strong with a sensitive side that not the whole world sees as a whiny heart on a sleeve, just his woman. Not just physically but mentally. Some so called nice guys are Chris Brown types with serious weaknesses/flaws that the straight up li’l wayne types don’t have…li’l wayne type = what you see is what you get. Chris Brown “nice guy” types can easily have some evil lurking beneath…

  22. That guy said ” Cut out alcohol, start going to the gym regularly, know what you want and go after it.”

    That definitely goes for women too who are tired of the men they want passing them by or using them as placeholders til the girl they really want comes along.

    Replace “alcohol” with “sweets” or “emotional eating” and this is exactly what women need to do as well.

    It’s okay to want what ever you want, just recognize the economics of relationships, know that the hottest men and women have their pick of the litter and don’t have to settle for less than the cream of the crop physically…know that men are visual creatures and all the complaining about that isn’t going to change their genetic makeup (and let’s be real women drool faster over a guy with a lovely muscular V shape wayyyyyy faster than they even notice the guy with a hint of a double chin and arms that don’t stop waving when he stops)…so just like guys get in the gym for shallow reasons…no reason for women to not do so as well!

    I always say the only two solutions to getting who you want in the relationship game is to change your type (to match who approaches/shows interest in you), or change yourself (hit the gym, take lessons to improve yourself somehow, etc.)

    Become the person you want to attract. If many of us are honest we don’t bring to the table what we want out of others. Which is unfair to the other person.

  23. On a serious note, these posts have me thinking again that folks on both sides of the fence are feeling unappreciated. Maybe we should all focus on that

    I agree Sherry. I read a lot of relationship blogs (just my guilty pleasure) and there are a lot of men and women who give off a strong sense of hurt and pain (and bitterness, honestly) because of past rejection. And hey, rejection sucks. I’m certainly not immune and I probably gave off that vibe at times myself.

    But, not everyone is going to reject you… there are plenty of people who would be glad to have you (well, assuming you’re a normal decent average-looking human being, lol). I think the question should be whether people are upset because they feel rejected in general, or are they upset because they’re rejected by the people THEY want.

    It helped a lot to truly understand that everyone I want isn’t going to want me back — and vice-versa — and those people have every right to make that choice. While people should show common decency in their rejections, the rejectees should understand that none of us are entitled to be accepted by the people we want to accept us! Being so focused on that can almost become some kind of bizarro form of narcissism really.

    Nice guys. And guys who say they’re nice guys. Just like Cool guys, nice guys never go around saying how nice they are. And guys who say they’re nice are always bemoaning about it. Meanwhile, genuinely nice guys tend to be too busy being happy to really care much about any of this.

    Also agree Zev. I think my husband is a nice guy, but I can only remember one time when he referred to himself using that term. (And that was well into our relationship and we were talking about dating in an abstract sense.) One thing that attracted me to him was that he seemed to project an air of, “This is me, take it or leave it.” And if a woman wanted to leave it, he was just like, oh well. Yeah, he got frustrated at times, but he didn’t change his ways. He just figured he might need to try dating more women to have a better likelihood of meeting Miss Right!

  24. I’ve also read a description of the trademark Nice Guy that is basically a manipulator. He’s nice to get stuff out of people (generally women) and thinks his niceness makes him deserving of their attention.

    I’ve heard this too, Jasmin. I never encountered this type of “Nice Guy,” but I’ve heard stories.

    I remember reading a very odd story on a blog in which a woman went on a few dates with a man who treated her like a queen. He did this with a lot of women, but never ended up in a relationship with any of them. The writer was gushing over this guy, saying he’s the type all women need to date to restore their faith in men.

    Meanwhile, I’m thinking, “Uh, that’s very weird that this man is behaving as a serial ‘Nice Guy,’ but not actually trying to establish any semblance of a relationship with these women.”

    Then again, I never needed to go out with a “good guy” to restore my faith in men. I had never lost faith anyway, so I guess that particular blog story just wasn’t meant for me, shrug.

  25. Mira,

    “I guess woman are attracted to men who seem either dominant or independent. Independence is another quality that woman are attracted to.”

    True. Not too independent though. Then it seems like you don’t need them.

    “Also, yes, there are “nice girls” who suffer similar treatment (always a friend, never a boy/girlfriend). I am not sure if it’s because these nice girls look plain (do they?), but it’s sure difficult for them to make men see them as females.”

    Well, Nice Girls tend to be more reserved and well… nice. They don’t put themselves out there or make themselves noticeable in appearance or behavior. So they are overlooked, same as with Nice Guys.

    zek,

    “Hmm… There are two kinds of Nice Guys ™.”

    I agree with you on this. There are two. The type that has some form of success with women, and the type that doesn’t. 🙂

    Lol. Kidding. I’m with you on the idea that Nice Guys ™ tend to complain about how they are so nice, yet go unrecognized. “Nice Guys” are nice but don’t really notice that they are.

  26. Hi Udara. Welcome. 🙂

    “Bunny took the words out of mouth with her reply. The only thing that I have to add is that there is a difference between being nice and being kind. I prefer a kind, confident and respectful man to a nice guy because niceness is like a shirt that can be put on or taken off at the wearer’s convenience while kindness is more genuine.”

    I like that! Very apt.

    There is something about niceness versus kindness which is more superficial in nature.

    “And I know am a little late Alee but am glad you decided to keep on blogging. Great post.”

    It’s never too late! And thanks. You know I would keep blogging! 😉

    thatguy,

    I was wondering what your reply would be. I was thinking, “I wonder what that guy has to say about this.” I was waiting to laugh out loud. 🙂

    “This used to be me several years ago. I think insecurity/lack of confidence was the main thing.”

    I was not expecting this! I would never have thought of you as a Nice Guy ™. You’ve certainly changed, if you were anything like this.

    ‘Too many “nice guys” are just coasting and letting life drift by. And then they turn to PUA’s and become ignorant assholes haha.’

    Both of these sentences are so right. Just coasting… definitely.

  27. Rob,

    “Totally agree that this tendency to chase attractive genes goes for both men and women. It’s probably more true for men actually.”

    I love it when people pretend to agree with you, then just go right back to what they were saying before. 😉

    But I don’t agree that all guys just want a “hot girl”. Many guys care about personality or have a different idea of what beauty is. But it’s been drummed into their heads that they need to have a stereotypically beautiful woman by their side. I don’t think chasing after stereotypical hotness is something that’s encoded in the Y chromosome.

    Jasmin,

    ‘Nice Guys are often uninterested in Nice Girls, but then they bemoan the fact that Cool Girls aren’t interested in them (and are so “shallow”) while not realizing that being nice doesn’t make them any less shallow.’

    Bingo. Quoted for emphasis.

    “I’ve also read a description of the trademark Nice Guy that is basically a manipulator. He’s nice to get stuff out of people (generally women) and thinks his niceness makes him deserving of their attention.”

    I’ve run into these kinds of guys. They are the worst. And then they have the gall to complain about their manipulations not working.

    Eliss,

    “Prior to my current relationship, my longest relationship was with a “nice guy,” and I put that in quotation because he ended up being bad during the end of our relationship (asshole).”

    Ugh, the Nice Guy who is actually not nice at all. Sadly, I can’t say your experience is uncommon. I’ve even had an experience with the supposed Nice Guy who ended up being much worse than any “jerk” in the end. When you realize you were with this kind of guy… your mouth just hangs open in disbelief. But like Udara said, niceness is like a shirt.

    “I like nice guys, but the confidence is what can kill it for me. Low self-esteem / efficacy is a major turn off for me. I can handle everything else, but I can’t handle that.”

    Even passivity?! 🙂

    I think a lot of women would agree that the lack of confidence is a major reason.

  28. Eloquence,

    “you’re not a nice guy, you’re an azzhole without the game to get the girls!”

    Lol. A lot of truth in this.

    “Some so called nice guys are Chris Brown types with serious weaknesses/flaws that the straight up li’l wayne types don’t have…li’l wayne type = what you see is what you get. Chris Brown “nice guy” types can easily have some evil lurking beneath…”

    Indeed. Don’t even get me started on Chris Brown…

  29. I’m not really into niceness and politeness per se, but I thought the post was about genuinely nice guys… Not those who pretend to be such. You know, those nice guys that all girls want to be friends with, but none see them as a boyfriend material?

  30. Mira,

    “I thought the post was about genuinely nice guys… Not those who pretend to be such.”

    It is. But comments about other types of Nice Guys (including the “pretender” Nice Guy) aren’t off-topic.

  31. @ alee

    Who says I’m still not a nice guy? hmmmmm?

    Life is a journey, my childhood was a little. . . different. All you can do is learn from your past.

  32. that guy,

    You don’t seem like one. You might be “nice” (although that isn’t extremely evident, either 🙂 ), but you don’t seem like a Nice Guy ™.

  33. I have been the nice guy all my life. It doesn’t work and never will. Nice guys like submissive mother type women because they actually care about a mans “real” feelings. Strong women always see this as insecure but truthfully everyman is soft. So really women like fake men /closed

    Also please realize this women. When you speak of men who don’t fit your perfect bill…people will never be 100% perfect. Don’t expect a perfect man just like I don’t expect a perfect women because you are just trying way to hard.

    I don’t and never understand why women want a man and be independent that just sounds stupid in the first place.

    Technically strong women want a man friend with benefits. To be exclusive sex partners because the lack of an actual relationship. Prove me wrong I have been turned down by every women I ever met. 🙂

  34. Hi Luke,

    “I have been the nice guy all my life.”

    My apologies. 😛

    “Nice guys like submissive mother type women because they actually care about a mans “real” feelings.’

    Then maybe they should go (only) for these women?

    “I don’t and never understand why women want a man and be independent that just sounds stupid in the first place.”

    Well, just because you want a boyfriend or husband doesn’t mean you want to depend on him for everything.

    “Technically strong women want a man friend with benefits. To be exclusive sex partners because the lack of an actual relationship.”

    Hah, that’s one (interesting) way of looking at it.

    “Prove me wrong I have been turned down by every women I ever met.”

    Even the submissive mother types? 🙂

  35. You know, I’m beginning to wonder if there’s a black equivalent? Sometimes I hear black men complain that black women only want thugs, they don’t want a “nice brotha.”

  36. Hey RenKiss,

    There is surely a black equivalent but it might not have a name yet.

    I was going to do the “Black Women Only Want Thugs” post but like with all the PUA posts, I’m not interested in reading pissed/sad/accusing comments and emails from guys who disagree, for the rest of my blogging life.

  37. I don’t and never understand why women want a man and be independent that just sounds stupid in the first place.

    Because, even though we provide for ourselves and can take care of ourselves, we like to have companionship, love, mutual understanding and regular sex?

  38. this analysis is pretty correct overall. you massage some of it to make it sound politically correct though, and you don’t really completely get to the heart of the matter. the point is that a woman wants a man who is at least somewhat socially dominant. social status and looks play a definite role, but for sheer sexual attraction, personal dominance, which is perceived as “confidence” if done right, is hard to beat when it comes to heterosexual women’s sexual desire.

    what clinches your analysis, though, is that you elsewhere say that the whiny “strong woman” is the converse of the whiny “nice guy”. this is spot on, because heterosexuality (and maybe homosexuality too) is about polarity, and both of these archetypes fail to understand how to play the sexual game.

  39. PS has hit the nail on the head and put this topic to bed. Personal dominance is the quality which women can’t resist. Dominance is the key to a womans desire. A man doesn’t have to be particularly good looking if women recognise his dominance, he is a winner.

  40. Dominant though, or confident?

    Dominance is not always attractive to women. Sometimes they can get scared or perceive it as a controlling personality.

  41. @billy Dominance is by no means an irresistible trait to women. You’re confusing confidence with dominance. Confidence is about being able to accept who you are unconditionally and believing that you can achieve what you set out for. It doesn’t require another person’s presence. And it doesn’t require another person to be beneath you. Dominance does. When you are dominant, you have control over something, some place and/or someone. And I don’t know many women who want to be controlled.

    Alee is right. The problem isn’t the nice guy. Somewhere in society, we have become too lazy to find the right word for that particular guy. I think a better term is the ‘selfless guy’. Not the guy who gives unabashedly. I mean the guy who lacks a sense of self. These ‘nice guys’ are usually like liquid, assuming the shape of whatever person they’re confronted with. They like what you like, do everything you want, agree with everything you state. How they feel about themselves is intricately tied to how another person feels about them and they mold and shape themselves into what they think that person wants. That may come across as nice to us but that’s very unkind to themselves.

    I think it’s better to state that women want partners. People who can bring an identity to the table. Sure, agree with us but only when you truly agree with us. Otherwise, challenge us, support us, correct us, be vulnerable to us, laugh with us, plan with us, love us. But more importantly, be genuine. Not just to us but to yourselves. You’re not a nice person if you treat yourself like shit.

  42. Asia,

    Welcome and great comment!

    “Confidence is about being able to accept who you are unconditionally and believing that you can achieve what you set out for. It doesn’t require another person’s presence. And it doesn’t require another person to be beneath you.”

    Love it. 🙂

  43. I know, they have one for posts, but not comments.

    Whenever I get time and know-how to move to self-hosting, I’ll get one.

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